It's also worth pointing out that we just had the big debate about 'what is indie' last year, but with a totally different tenor, about Clair Obscur, another game that had a bit more polish and budget than virtually any "real" indie game could hope for, and swept critical reception pretty convincingly, and I'm sure also had press kits and all the rest going on. But, however you feel about the separate "what is a 'real' game" question, I think it contributes too much to the current situation to dismiss entirely - Clair Obscur was, after all, only relatively short by JRPG standards, while a walking sim/narrative experience of the sort that Mixtape is just doesn't have that much for most people to engage with outside of the external, like its reception and drama encircling it. Would Mixtape be a better game, to anyone's sensibilities, if it was also a weird JRPG that took dozens of hours to get through on top of everything else? Looking at YIIK... probably not. But I guarantee it would at least give people things to complain about besides the kissing scene and the press kits.
That's fair, Clair Obscur is a sharp parallel but alas, the piece was getting long as it was and I had to draw the line somewhere (I know... since when do I care about word count? But I am trying to be more disciplined on that front). But since we're here....
My take is that the two debates cleanly came apart with Clair Obscur and then got fused back together with Mixtape. That's basically the whole story. Clair Obscur triggered the whole "what is even an indie" question (budget, polish, press push, all of it) but nobody seriously argued that it wasn't a *game*, because it had dozens of hours of systems to chew on. Its mechanical depth inoculated it against that particular criticism. Mixtape, however, sets both off charges at once, which is why it became a bigger flashpoint than you'd expect from a game that got an 85 on Metacritic.
I see your point about engagement surface, though, and how the drama itself becomes the content because a walking sim just doesn't give players outside its target audience much to grab onto. The game slides off of anyone who isn't already its audience, so they engage with the game's reception instead.
But... YIIK is the perfect counterexample. Length =/= engagement. A bad 30 hour game is just 30 hours of complaints. So the fix was never "mak moar game," but rather to make more game *for more people.* This is, of course, a much harder note to give a studio.
Ultimately, Mixtape knew exactly who it was for. That audience just turns out to be smaller than a polished Annapurna press push makes it look.
That's exactly the split, isn't it? There's some real craft in this game, but if you're not rooting for the trio, the whole thing rests on the soundtrack and nostalgia to carry you. For me it just barely held; sounds like for you it didn't. And you're far from the only one!
Haven't played that one yet, but it's a compelling example just on the Peabody alone. Also a genuine indie by both tests (small team, modest backing), so all the more impressive that it cleared the critical bar that Mixtape needed an Ellison-funded press apparatus to reach. Also seems far more interactive; Mixtape's interactivity is mostly decoration on a linear story, 1000xRESIST seems like it's actually using the medium.
It's also worth pointing out that we just had the big debate about 'what is indie' last year, but with a totally different tenor, about Clair Obscur, another game that had a bit more polish and budget than virtually any "real" indie game could hope for, and swept critical reception pretty convincingly, and I'm sure also had press kits and all the rest going on. But, however you feel about the separate "what is a 'real' game" question, I think it contributes too much to the current situation to dismiss entirely - Clair Obscur was, after all, only relatively short by JRPG standards, while a walking sim/narrative experience of the sort that Mixtape is just doesn't have that much for most people to engage with outside of the external, like its reception and drama encircling it. Would Mixtape be a better game, to anyone's sensibilities, if it was also a weird JRPG that took dozens of hours to get through on top of everything else? Looking at YIIK... probably not. But I guarantee it would at least give people things to complain about besides the kissing scene and the press kits.
That's fair, Clair Obscur is a sharp parallel but alas, the piece was getting long as it was and I had to draw the line somewhere (I know... since when do I care about word count? But I am trying to be more disciplined on that front). But since we're here....
My take is that the two debates cleanly came apart with Clair Obscur and then got fused back together with Mixtape. That's basically the whole story. Clair Obscur triggered the whole "what is even an indie" question (budget, polish, press push, all of it) but nobody seriously argued that it wasn't a *game*, because it had dozens of hours of systems to chew on. Its mechanical depth inoculated it against that particular criticism. Mixtape, however, sets both off charges at once, which is why it became a bigger flashpoint than you'd expect from a game that got an 85 on Metacritic.
I see your point about engagement surface, though, and how the drama itself becomes the content because a walking sim just doesn't give players outside its target audience much to grab onto. The game slides off of anyone who isn't already its audience, so they engage with the game's reception instead.
But... YIIK is the perfect counterexample. Length =/= engagement. A bad 30 hour game is just 30 hours of complaints. So the fix was never "mak moar game," but rather to make more game *for more people.* This is, of course, a much harder note to give a studio.
Ultimately, Mixtape knew exactly who it was for. That audience just turns out to be smaller than a polished Annapurna press push makes it look.
I love the art. I really don’t like the characters. None of them made me want to encourage them.
That's exactly the split, isn't it? There's some real craft in this game, but if you're not rooting for the trio, the whole thing rests on the soundtrack and nostalgia to carry you. For me it just barely held; sounds like for you it didn't. And you're far from the only one!
I guess my childhood isn’t like that.
“Meanwhile, Edith Finch, arguably the genre’s high point, was in 2017… almost a full decade ago.”
I liked Edith Finch, but I think 2024’s 1000xRESIST trumps it (and won a Peabody).
Haven't played that one yet, but it's a compelling example just on the Peabody alone. Also a genuine indie by both tests (small team, modest backing), so all the more impressive that it cleared the critical bar that Mixtape needed an Ellison-funded press apparatus to reach. Also seems far more interactive; Mixtape's interactivity is mostly decoration on a linear story, 1000xRESIST seems like it's actually using the medium.
I'll have to check it out, thanks!